Lee:

Hello everybody welcome back to season’s EBB and flow today we are going to be talking with AJ Garcia. She is a therapist in the Orlando area, Lake Nona specifically, and we are both part of the or Orlando Central Florida Collaborative Group for collaborative divorce and today we are going to be talking a little bit about how divorce affects children, how parents can co-parent effectively, and what the effects are or the hardships are on the children or teenagers when the parents are struggling to co-parent and work together. So I’m going to let AJ introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her background and then we will start our conversation so AJ thank you for joining us.

A.J.:

Lee, thank you so much for having me. Guys I’m so excited to be here speaking with you all today and, Lee, having this great conversation. So yes as you mentioned I am a marriage and family therapist with Thrive Counseling. I have been so blessed to have a wide range of experiences in the years that I’ve been a counselor. I’ve worked in in inpatient settings and outpatient settings with substance use and self harm. I’ve worked with jails. Or, with inmates in jails. I’ve worked with vets and caregivers and targeted at risk to high achievers. I’ve worked with young kids to older adults I mean honestly almost every single range and population you can think of except for sexual offenders. I have worked with almost everybody else and I’m again super blessed super thankful to have that foundation. And through all of those experiences really what I’ve learned is that relationships shape who we are You know, Lee, you and I are a culmination of the relationships and experiences that we’ve had in our lives and how we feel about ourselves and how we engage with others how we engage with our spouses and our kids and our co-workers and you know other people in our life all relate back to the relationships we’ve had. And some of us have been lucky enough to have had healthy relationships modeled to us and unfortunately many of us have not been so lucky and so fortunate. And so I have designed my practice now around relationships and helping people build the skills and strategies and understanding necessary to have strong healthy relationships in their lives. So I work with couples and individuals and teenagers and parents to help them learn how to communicate. Help them learn how to set boundaries. Help them learn to truly know and understand what is being told to them. How to manage through defensiveness and communicate appropriately. And so I’m so excited again to be here and I’m excited to work with such wonderful people in Orlando and in Florida in general to help them strengthen the relationships in their lives. And today as you mentioned we’re going to be talking about specifically the relationship between parents and kids as they go through the divorce process and that is such an important thing to talk about and I’m super thankful to be here with you.

Lee:

Yes yeah absolutely. I think that point about relationships is just so crucial like a lot of what I do with clients even though they are going through divorce, which means the uncoupling of a relationship, there are so many relationships that that affects and it’s even the relationship with themselves but with their children and their extended family and friends and working through those dynamics and showing up in a way that makes them feel comfortable and supportive and loving to themselves and all their people in their lives is just so important. So yeah let’s just dive right In. The first thing I wanted to talk about um from a therapist perspective um what are some of the negative repercussions on the kids when the parents aren’t getting along and are not able to co-parent effectively?

A.J.:

Yeah there’s so many. And you know the first one I want to talk about and, hey listen you’re in the divorce world, Lee, and you probably see this often as well, but when parents can’t get along so often the kid almost at any age feels like it’s their fault, like they’re the problem. And they internalize it. And very rarely do I hear them sharing it with very many people. Unfortunately the parents have no idea often times of this effect that you know is taken on for their kids and you know they just they internalize it they beat themselves up they usually retreat maybe isolate and have a very distorted and inappropriate view of themselves as a direct result of how their parents are.

Lee:

Yeah I know I feel like there’s so many parents who are so focused on their ex and either trying to make their ex look bad or them look better uh be the favorite parent and and then that respect uh try to like push their ex away and ingratiate the kids and that’s for themselves and their ego and you know their insecurities. And little do they know that if they would not focus on themselves and their ex and just focus on their kids and doing right by their kids by working with their ex they would be helping their kids. But many times they’re so focused on themselves and it’s yeah it’s really frustrating.

A.J.:

It is it’s aw and I think you brought up a great point that when we are so focused on ourselves and maybe badmouthing the mom or the dad to the kid I think that I’m bringing my kid onto my side. And I think that you know they’re aligning with me and they’re going to be on my team against him or my team against her and unfortunately the complete opposite tends to happen. That I’m in effect isolating myself from my kid and I don’t even know that I’m doing it.

Lee:

Yeah yeah I think uh when they say negative comments it’s so confusing to the kid and I think the kids are half genetically that other parent so if you’re saying that through and through that person is awful like what are you saying about your kid they are half that person. You might not be able to be married to that person anymore but you once love them. And your kids still love them and kids need two supportive parents. So yeah that whole trying to make the other person look bad just is so confusing for the kids.

A.J.:

It is I think what you said is absolutely accurate that as soon as a parent starts bad mouthing the other one often times I find that the kid takes those same comments onto themselves. Because you’re right I I am half of my mom and I am half of my dad and if my mom doesn’t like my dad just that mean she doesn’t like that about me either? So I must be bad not be okay with me that’s a really hard thing for a kid to wrestle with. I they don’t think that they have a parent or someone that that loves them that they can go to a it’s so hard.

Lee:

Yeah so confusing yeah and you know their brains aren’t fully developed. They’re not adults who can look at the situation and be like oh they’re going through really rough period and not dealing with this well and I just need to like let them work through it. The kid internalizes all of that and their developing brain is just you know trying to make sense of it and the easiest thing is oh maybe or how can I help how can I take this on and fix it or care for the parent who’s hurting. Which okay let that dives right into the topic of parentification. What is that and when do kids do that and how is that challenging and harmful?

A.J.: 

That is so challenging. Oftentimes what happens is parents, because we are consumed with our own stuff I mean divorce is not easy and it’s so emotionally taxing on everybody involved including the kids, but you know oftentimes parents don’t consider the emotional toll and the physical toll and the environmental change that happens with the kids they’re just so consumed with themselves. And I get it it’s a big deal it’s a lot to work through, and so oftentimes it’s really difficult to step outside of my own perspective and see what’s happening in the lives of my kids, but parentification so what often happens is because there’s so much going on and there’s so much confusion and there’s so much emotion and there’s so much challenge, oftentimes parents will either elevate the status of their kids to be a peer or maybe another parent or perhaps the parent stops acting like the adult leaving the space for the kid to step up and take on that parental role. They’re just kids! They need to be able to grow up in a developmentally appropriate way, not be thrust into adulthood far before their time and not forced to parent their parent.

Lee:

Yes exactly. Yeah I think you know when I work with people they are confused like I’m going through a hard time as going through this divorce. Is it bad for me if I’m crying for my kids to see that? And I say we all have feelings and we all have emotions and your kids need to know that you have emotions you don’t want them to think that you’re a robot, but you can tell them like I’m sad today there this is hard for all of us but you don’t have to worry about me I can take care of me and I am here to support you through this. You can tell me when you’re sad that’s okay or mad. So you don’t have to pretend like you don’t have feelings as a parent but you also can’t use them as your support network.

A.J.:

I love that you say that and I love that you coach your families on that. You know we go through so much as just humans! Yes and sometimes it’s really difficult to take the blinders off and recognize that there are other people in this challenging situation too. And yes it is so appropriate for parents to model healthy emotional management for their kids. We’re all human. We all have emotions and sometimes we know what’s going on and sometimes it just kind of blindsides us and we have no idea. But we have to be able to manage that and express our emotions but keep in mind the age of our kids, the developmental appropriateness of our kids, and recognize that they’re not our peers they’re not our friends they shouldn’t know everything. They should know a little bit and that’s it. And then we have other friends or other family members that we can go to to fill that gap and provide us the support that we’re really looking for. Our kids are not supposed to be our support system. We are supposed to be their support systems; they’re not ours.

Lee:

Yes exactly. So these situations where the parents aren’t co-parenting well so the communication breaks down almost all together and then the kid has to be the messenger the go-between which a lot of times they call triangulation. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why that’s hard on the kids?

A.J.:

Yeah I think it all kind of rolls into the same things that we’ve been talking about. That our kids are our kids. They’re not our peers, they’re not our friends, they’re not the messenger, they’re not the middleman. That even though in a divorcing situation the parental relationship is changing that doesn’t mean that it has to destroy the relationship between the parents and the kids. And I always like when I’m working with separated couples or divorcing couples – I always like to help build appropriate co-parenting communication. That when I have something I need to tell you I shouldn’t go through our kid to send the message. I shouldn’t have to intentionally or inadvertently communicate to them that they’re the bo-between, that they’re the only way mom or dad and I can can connect. That we’re adults and we have the ability to model healthy relational patterns. Because even though we’re not married anymore we’re still in each other’s lives forever more because we share this child or we share these children. We have the beautiful opportunity to model for our kids how to talk and how to communicate and how to support each other for our kid and how to work together for our kid and again we have the opportunity to model that.

Lee:

Exactly. Yeah. The thing is like in life you’re not you’re always going to have situations where you have to work with someone who you might not see eye to eye with or love their style. In the workplace you might not love your boss, or your cooworker or an employee, but you have to figure out how to work with them. A co-parent is no different and it is hard because there are so many emotions that come out with divorce. And I remind my clients the time you’re going through that intense period of the divorce itself it is really hard to deactivate some of those emotions and bring them down. But time heals and so if you can stay calm enough to have those basic interactions through that the actual divorce period, then you can slowly build that co-parenting relationship over time as everybody’s hyper sensitivities have calmed back down. But um if you get into such a war during the divorce that you are like literally destroying each other then rebuilding takes so much longer. And the a lot of the breaking down of each other has been done and that some of that damage is done to those kids.

A.J.:

Yeah exactly right. And you know when they are tearing each other down unfortunately, again in the heat of the moment when the emotions are high I probably don’t know I’m doing this, because if I knew I probably wouldn’t do it, but in tearing down the person that I’m divorcing I’m also tearing down the relationship that I have with my kid. And it’s distancing them from me. I might think that by talking badly about their other parent I’m distancing them from that other parent but in fact the opposite tends to be true. That I have no idea the damage I’m doing to my kid when I’m badmouthing their dad or their mom. At the end of the day, you’re right, that when emotions subside and when we have the ability to think a little bit more logically and work on the co-parenting relationship, oftentimes I find that couples not only have to work on the relationship with each other but they have to find a way to reconnect with their kids that they’ve lost in the process.

Lee:

Yeah yes. And um what about the whole like there are some of my clients who struggle with their ex tries to kind of like buy the kids love like taking them to concerts like doing extravagant things that they might not have done to kind of to ingratiate the kids again trying to get them almost on their side or the fun parent you know. And that that parent might be the fun parent but they don’t want to actually do the real parenting like setting healthy boundaries and saying no or telling the kids the expectations for their chores need to be done. They want to make life easy for the kids but maybe in the long run that’s actually hurting the kids.

A.J.:

Yeah I think there are so many ways to easy parent. And so many ways to avoid emotion and avoid the difficult things. I can I can buy your love or we can go here but I don’t have to talk about what’s difficult. And so oftentimes when I’m working with teenagers I also work with their parents. And I think it’s really important to educate parents on how to best connect with their kids. And I know that every kid is different and every situation is different, but if I were to boil it down to just a couple aspects I would say that for the most part even though it doesn’t feel like it your kid really wants to hang out with you. And your kid really just wants your attention, they want your time. Even if it looks like you coming in to their room and and hanging out with them for five minutes when they get home from school or when you get home from work catching up on the day, that makes a big difference. If you’re not avoiding reality you’re not avoiding emotions when they’re having a tough time just kind of grab them in your arms and hug on them and love on them. Just be there let them know physically and emotionally that you’re not running away, that you’re a safe place for them to spend time with and you’re a safe place for them to come to. And often times I find with teenagers, especially in the middle of a divorcing situation, as we mentioned before they kind of isolate because they’re working through their own stuff and their parents are pulling away and they don’t have a safe place and they don’t know where to turn because they’re confused too, their world just got upended. Everything is different. So they just need they just need their parents. And their parental relationship is going to look different. They’re no longer together so not they’re not going to see them both at home at the same house every night and that’s fine. As long as when they go to mom’s house mom’s aware, and Mom’s chatting with them, and Mom’s hanging out with them. And when they go to dad’s house dad’s aware, and dad’s chatting with them, and dad’s hanging out with them.

Lee:

Yeah I think that um you know I try and encourage people to remember that it’s not about the glamour. Like yes kids love toys, treats, concerts, what have you but at the end of the day like what really matters is a safe place to land and knowing that they are loved unconditionally. without judgment. And so for the parent who maybe feels like the other parent is buying their kids love, I remind them like like just be there. Be supportive. Do what you can which might just be spending quality time watching a movie together. But your kids that is important to them. And you might worry that oh I’m going to lose my child to that parent, but kids are very very aware even if they act like they’re not. And it might take years it might be five years down the road but but if the one parent is trying to kind of alienate or make the other parent look terrible it might work for a year. But like those kids know in the big picture when they get a little older. They can see through the manipulation or buying of Love.

A.J.:

Yes you nailed it. Kids are brilliant! And they are acutely aware of everything. They don’t usually communicate it, but they’re watching. They notice everything. And I think that, come on, kids are just tiny little humans we all take the path of least resistance most of the time we tend to gravitate to what’s easiest. Until there’s a significant reason not to. And at first when one parent is buying love sure it’s fun because I get all of these shiny new toys and I get to go to all of these wonderful place. But at the end of the day that parent doesn’t know about my life. They don’t know know my friends, they don’t know what’s going on with me, but my other parent – even though we didn’t do anything crazy and they didn’t lavish me with gifts or spend a ton of money on me – they were a part of my every day. And at the end of the time, be it days weeks months or years, most kids that I work with tend to gravitate towards the parent who was present.

Lee:

Yes so true.

A.J.:

I I told you that I work a lot with relationships. And all of that boils down to this: that relationships are so important. They’re so vital even in the midst of a divorce. A relationship with your kids is of utmost importance. It doesn’t matter what you give them, it doesn’t matter even how much time you spend, it matters that you’re present when you’re able. Show up! Be there. Engage. Talk. Even if it seems trivial and they’re telling you about the drama that happened at school, it might be trivial to you because you’re in the middle of a really difficult divorce and a really difficult situation, but my gosh, Lee, it means the world to them.

Lee:

Yes. Yeah putting down your phone and actually making that I contact and making them feel like what they’re talking about is important. And I think that in our society like we’ve all been trained to some degree to disconnect from our emotions or a lot of us have. And I think asking them they might not answer, but asking them like how are you feeling and seeing if they are willing to open up periodically um is important I think some parents get scared to have awkward or hard conversations. And I think it’s great to use resources like therapists um in that respect. Kids might feel uncomfortable being completely honest for fear of hurting their parents’ feelings um but I think it’s good for parents to open up and tell them “you can tell me if you’re mad or you know need to get something off your chest or like have a fear of abandonment”. They might not be able to put that in a words but uh like my kids I was concerned about that just because their dad and stay in the country and he still is involved in their life but much less than the everyday 50/50 situation. And I just brought up topics of other people that might be have challenging family dynamics that, and I didn’t directly say like I’m worried that you might feel this way. But I would just give examples of things they might be feeling. And sometimes the kids would say nothing and sometimes it would come up and they would talk about it just a little bit. They weren’t very forthcoming with their emotions to me but I just wanted them to know that I acknowledge that you are probably feeling lots of confusing emotions and that’s okay.

A.J.:

It is. I love that you made a concerted effort to talk about it. You know you mentioned that emotions are things that we like to avoid. Especially in recent years I think that we like to avoid it because most of us don’t understand emotions. I think emotions can be really confusing and when I feel an emotion I have to figure out what to do with it and most of us don’t know how to manage them. And so in my work with couples and individuals and teens I do focus a lot on understanding emotion and creating healthy skills and healthy habits about managing them appropriately. And when we do understand our emotions, when we do have and utilize the skills necessary to manage them well, emotions actually are wonderful. They’re beautiful tools as long as we know how to use them effectively and know how to understand them effectively. But because most people don’t, you’re exactly right: we run away from them and because I don’t understand them I’m not going to talk to my kids about them because what if they say something that hits a nerve for me? Or what if they say something that I don’t know how to respond to? And so often I find that parents just avoid it altogether. And when I do work with teenagers, as I said, I also work with the parents. And I help them bridge the gap and learn how to communicate about these things. I help parents build the skills and abilities necessary to communicate most effectively with their kids and learn how to set the boundaries, learn how to respond appropriately, learn how to support them accurately. Yes, l work with the teenagers on how to best communicate with their parents because we’re not going to talk to our parents like we talk to our peers and, you know, we need to know how to express ourselves appropriately so that the person I’m speaking with actually has the best opportunity to understand.

Lee:

Right yeah. Something that I think is such an important skill that I’ve been working on myself and with my kids and is like nervous system regulation. Being able to like reign in when you want to lose yourself completely because of emotions that you don’t know how to handle. And and because that wasn’t really well modeled in my household and child of origin family of origin situation it took long into my adult life to really work and build those skills and have the awareness of how dysfunctional it is to like not be able to reign yourself in. But I think teaching those skills to parents and kids is part of the learning how to be in a healthy relationship. And being able to communicate when you’re angry rather than just screaming or storming out of the room. But it’s a skill. It takes practice and we all just need to recognize that we are there’s no destination where you’ve made it you are on the journey and constantly growing and evolving.

A.J.:

I love that you said that. I love the journey. The journey is not the destination but I think the journey is a beautiful process. We can take a look at our journey and recognize where we came from and the progress that we’ve made to this point. You mentioned what you experienced growing up. What we are modeling to our kids they think is normal. And if we are treating them like our peers or our friends, if we are isolating them from their other parent, if we are emoting all over them, or if we’re isolating ourselves from them, whatever we’re teaching them and however we’re interacting with them they think is normal and they’re likely going to perpetuate in their future relationships. Always encourage parents to be mindful about the message that they are unintentionally sending to their kids.

Lee:

100% yeah I remind uh like some of my clients have immense guilt and sadness for their kids which yes, divorce is hard on kids there’s no doubt about it, but if you can do it relatively amicably and respectfully, kids living under one roof with parents who dislike each other or have like really toxic behaviors towards each other, the kids are growing up in that energy and they’re seeing a really unhealthy relationship dynamic and that’s all they know. And that’s kind of what they will expect to be what a marriage looks like or how they expect to be treated. And so I’m like you’re not doing your kids a service by staying in a really unhealthy dynamic. It’s just if you can change that when you do split into two households so that it’s not a war. But recognize like sometimes relationships don’t work out. That doesn’t mean that everything about them was wrong and that your kids are going to be destroyed. If the divorce is done well then and you can be adults then your kids might benefit. Like I feel like now my kids see two very different households: my house and my ex’s. And we respect each other and we don’t talk down about each other. I mean there have been comments along the way early in the divorce.That’s almost inevitable and you catch yourself and are like but like I feel like now at least they have seen that you can make mistakes in life and change paths, but they also see two very different households and can pick and choose from those what what they want to use or bring into their future household. But yeah I think you know they are pros and cons to staying in a marriage um and if it’s really not working telling yourself you’re staying for the kids is not always the truth.

A.J.:

Not if you are modeling inappropriate things to the kids. You brought up a great point that we are teaching our kids how they deserve to be treated. And you know what kind of the theme of our conversation of what we’re modeling for them they’re taking with them their whole lives. And if they see Mom and Dad bad mouthing each other and yelling at each other and being nasty at each other well, they come to expect that that’s normal and “I can accept that from other people. And you know in my relationships it’s okay when people cuss at me or yell at me or talk down at me”. And, Lee, you know that’s not okay at all! But if we or if our clients find themselves in these hostile or difficult situations, kids are smart. They’re watching and they’re being taught about what is healthy what is appropriate even if unfortunately we’re teaching them the wrong message. But the cool thing about this yeah kids are so resilient! I mean, divorce is so difficult. It’s difficult on every single person in the process. And unfortunately there’s no way to make that easier. But kids are resilient. And so are we! Right, adults are resilient too. Even though we go through really challenging times, we can come out the other side and we can be okay.

Lee:

Yes, so true. I you know you worry as a parent when you are going through divorce you’re like oh like “my poor kids”. But they are resilient. And if they have two parents who stay in their lives and, you know when we first split up we said we’re still a family we’re just a new shape. We’re a modern family and we are we do holidays together for the most part and I think we are very lucky. We have two rational parties on either side and it wasn’t like the divorce wasn’t super pretty, but uh we have always stayed where we could communicate and work together for the kids. And and that meant like letting a lot of things go on both sides. I don’t agree with all the choices he makes and but I don’t have control and so he’ll do what he needs to and I’ll do what I need to. And I know that he loves our kids and he might just do it and show it in different ways than I do. And that’s not really for me me to judge. As long as they’re safe with him you know.

A.J.:

Yeah that’s something that’s really difficult for most people. We like to have control. And it’s hard for us oftentimes to realize that the only person in this entire world that we can control is ourselves. And far too often we like to try to exert our control on other people and try to force them to do something that we find acceptable, but especially in divorcing situations, parents are going to parent differently. And they treat their kids differently. But, miring what you said, as long as both parents love the kids and have the best interest of the kids in mind, yeah they’re going to parent differently and I might not love what you do and you might not love what I do. But we have to be able to recognize that we cannot control the other person and if their heart and intention and integrity is in the right place with our kids, we have to be able to recognize that our kids are better off with the other parent in their life.

Lee:

Absolutely. Yeah so if a parent has a kid who does seem to be struggling through the divorce what are some things that you would recommend for that parent or the parents to do?

A.J.:

Being present is huge. Opening up the lines of communication. If a parent is really struggling with the divorcing process on their own and they just honestly don’t have the bandwidth to emotionally connect with their kids. Okay, you will get there. But until you get there I always recommend providing an outlet for your kids. Typically that might be setting them up with a counselor that you trust. Maybe that means getting them involved in the youth group at their church. You know find a trusted adult someone who has their best intentions in mind and someone who has the skills and abilities to walk with them and help serve them during this difficult time, if the parent is unable to. And when the parent is able to again I always suggest and encourage the parent to reconnect. And find ways to slowly enter back into the emotional world of their kids. And slowly open up conversation. And slowly become that safe place again. And I am just going to repeat myself for a minute, because as we’ve talked about the divorcing process is really really a challenging and super emotionally taxing and it is understandable and it is okay if one or both parents just do not have the bandwidth at that moment. But if that is happening, set your kids up for success. Provide them the outlet that they need because I guarantee you they need it.

Lee:

Yeah yeah they do. I know I look back and I feel like that um especially my son he got involved in the band at school and just we have been very lucky with amazing band directors in the public school. And I feel like uh you know he had some great mentors through that process. And I think music was a really healthy escape for him when life was feeling very tough. And I think you know if kids love sports and have good coaches, like us as parents and therapists are not the only people who can be mentors and supporters for them. And peers are great but I think having other adults who can be there for them and just their cheerleaders as well it’s it’s really nice.

A.J.:

I fully agree. Yes, peers are great because we all at any age we need people to be there for us and maybe people that can listen to us when we vent or can pick us up when we’re feeling down. But I think especially in really difficult situations like divorce we also need wiser people who have maybe gone before, who have a little bit more experience, who have a few more connections to really help us out. And so yeah there are amazing adults in so many arenas. Make sure as a parent that you are not just passing your kid off to anybody, but that you are wise in how you’re finding these mentors and finding these blessings.

Lee:

Do you have any thoughts or tips for people who feel like they’re dealing with some parental alienation where maybe the kid is resisting wanting to spend any time with the one parent and feeling like the other parent might be you know putting little planting seeds to try and want the kid to alienate the other parent?

A.J.:

Well that’s a tricky question and I am going to say that every situation is a little bit different. So of course we need to be mindful of what is actually happening. If everybody’s healthy and everybody’s appropriate uh then perhaps we need to take a look at the dynamics. And maybe my kid isn’t wanting to spend time with the other parent because I have effectively brainwashed them against the other parent so maybe I need to look in the mirror and see what I’ve been doing to inadvertently and accidentally pull my kid away from their other parent. Maybe I need to have conversations when I’m emotionally regulated and able to of course I need to have conversations with the other parent and you know we can address the concern and maybe we can start to work together in the best interest interest of our kids. Because yes in the heat of the moment probably most couples aren’t able to do that, but eventually we can get to a point where we can co-parent effectively. And we can talk not about life but we can talk about what’s in the best interest of our kids and be on the same page for their benefit.

Lee:

Yes exactly. Yeah I think the the main thing there is just reminding every parent that kids benefit if both parents are involved in their lives. And so we should want the other parent to be involved and not want to pull the kid away from them.

A.J.:

Yep. And if I’m modeling to the kid that I can have a healthy relationship with their other parent then they probably can too. And I’m showing them that it’s healthy and that I want them to have it. But if I’m making it clear that I don’t get along with the other parent then I’m essentially modeling for the kid or instructing them that it’s not okay for them to have a relationship. And if there are other concerns in play I always encourage parents and kids to talk to somebody, again, who is a trusted adult that can help in a situation to assess if there’s anything concerning going on. But if everything is healthy and appropriate then I think an open line of communication between the parents is a really significant factor.

Lee:

Yeah that’s great. And um sometimes I know a lot of kids struggle in the transition from one house to the next. Like you know let’s say it’s week on week off. And maybe you can talk a little bit about like why the transition day might be challenging and what parents can do to try and help the kids through that that transition.

A.J.:

Well let’s just talk about us for a minute. When we find that our world is completely uprooted and then we have to settle down again for a couple days in a completely new environment with completely new rules and completely new people, our world is going to be shaken too and we’re not going to know how to respond because we just got comfortable for the past couple days in this environment and all of a sudden it’s changing. And once I get comfortable in this environment all of a sudden it’s going to change back. And there’s so much uncertainty and there’s so much change in the environment of kids who have to go from house to house. And often times especially if parents aren’t communicating and aren’t on the same page the rules are totally different. And the house is totally different. And the expectations are totally different. And the messages that they’re being told are totally different. So they have to figure out how to conform and live within this house and then change themselves completely to figure out how to live within this house. And that back and forth is so confusing. And back and forth is so challenging. And so when parents are noticing that their kids are struggling with this transition, I always recommend, and I again I feel like a broken record Lee, but getting on the same page. Expectations at both houses should be similar. They’re not going to be exactly the same because, of course, people are different. But they need to have basically the same expectations for their kids. They need to basically have the same boundaries. They need to know that what happens with the children at this house is going to be known at this house. They need to know that their parents are communicating. That it’s not too completely separate lives. It’s two completely separate houses with a similar life and a similar connection. And when their world and their experience is more streamlined, it makes it so much easier for them to figure out how to navigate the two different houses and the two different lives. Because, again, when we minimize the differences it’s easier for me to figure out where I stand and where I belong among them.

Lee:

Right. Yeah and the bottom line to all of that is the parents have to act like the adults. And work together for the benefit of their kids. And that might mean putting all differences aside to acknowledge that. Yes let’s kind of come up with certain expectations for when they do their homework or what we expect for them with school or chores in the house. So that the houses have you don’t want them to have one house where they do nothing and the other house they are being taught to have responsibility and be prepared when they leave the home that they are able to handle life. And so but if the parents can respect each other enough to say let’s come up with some common ground and talk respectfully about each other because we want our kids to respect their parents, and yeah the parents need to step up and be adults basically.

A.J.:

You’re exactly right. I love that you used the word respect. And I’m gonna go ahead to make it even a little bit easier. The parents don’t even have to respect each other; they have to respect their kids enough to be appropriate with the other parent. Because it’s not about the relationship that the parents have with each other, it’s about the benefit of their kids and what’s in their kids’ best interest. And sometimes that means me swallowing my pride and being nice to you when I just don’t want to be. And sometimes it means me supporting you and congratulating you in front of our kid because I need to model that that’s what’s healthy and appropriate. And it’s not easy. Lee, it’s not easy at all sometimes! Especially in the beginning and middle of the process. Hopefully at the end it gets a little bit easier, but it’s not easy at all. If I were just to kind of summarize this and and boil it down to one main point: throughout the divorcing process, and this is going to sound very trivial but just go with me, if you don’t have anything nice to say just don’t say anything at all. If you say something negative the damage is going to be so hard to overcome. So just close your mouth. Say nothing at all. And I promise you, and I promise you parents, that you are going to be so thankful for your discipline in the end.

Lee:

Yes absolutely. Yeah just it’s not worth it. That little reward that you get that dopamine hit for forgetting to say something about that other parent, like it it is it is so hard for the kid to hear and the longterm reward for you it’s not good. You know even if it feels good in the moment.

A.J.:

I guarantee you your kids will remember everything that you said about their parent. You probably won’t remember because you said it in an emotional moment. But your kids are going to remember it and they’re going to hold it against you, thus destroying and maybe not destroying but making it difficult to have a healthy relationship with them for a little while. You might think you’re damaging the other person, but you’re not. You’re damaging yourself and your relationship with your kids in the process. I know it’s not easy to hold our tongue. Many many times it’s it’s really challenging, but it’s so well worth it.

Lee:

This has been really really helpful I think for so many parents. Some of this is common sense but it’s so necessary to hear it over and over. When you’re going through the hard time and you start to doubt or think like oh it’s not that big of a deal if I make a dig here or there. So I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of this information. If people want to reach out to you, you are at Thrive Counseling.

A.J.:

Yes, Thrive Counseling. My website is thrivecounsel.com. I have my phone number and email that I can give you and you can provide and post with this blog article. I welcome anybody to reach out to me with questions. If you want some advice or thoughts or assistance on parenting appropriately through divorce, I would love to partner with you and walk alongside you. If you have concerns or questions about your children or your teenagers, what they’re thinking how they’re working through this event, please reach out. I’d love to be able to partner with them and help them navigate these challenges. It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all. But it is possible to successfully get through this.

Lee:

It definitely is yes. Well thank you so much for your time AJ and all of your details I’ll put in the show notes. And thank you everybody for watching and joining us. If you like this content please subscribe, like, comment, and have a wonderful day and best wishes to you and your family. We will see you in the next one. Take care [Music]

https://leewrightcoaching.com/therapist-shares-impact-of-divorce-on-kids/